segunda-feira, 11 de julho de 2011

Aerotranstornados no.17 - FILE 1809

Contributions for the History of FIAT G.91 T.3 FAP nr.1809

Some time ago, in August 2010, was published in the blog Pássaro de Ferro (Iron Bird), by António "A-7" Luís, another set of images by Paulo Moreno, depicting the passage through Monte Real Air Base, in 1991, of a flight of FIAT G.91's,
From the images, one can find the FIAT nos. 1801, 5442, 5459, 1809 plus other two.

Nothing made me suppose that a reader of the site/blog Walkarounds [] mailed us and called my attention to an interesting detail.
One of the photos, shows the side fuselage of one of the aircraft, with the Esquadra 303 "Tigres" logo, and on the side of it, a stenciling containing, among others the Constructor Number 91-2-0034.
The querry, presented by this enthusiast, Paulo Alegria, is quite common, not only for those of us interested in the "spider web-like" complicated stories around aircraft "numerology", but also for those, as was the case, that are just trying to identify a photo in order to organize their collection. Furthermore, what was doing a Esquadra 303 aircraft in Mainland Portugal -- the Esquadra 303 was based at Lajes Air Base, in the Azores?

Well, the last question is simpler to answer. This was 1991, the last days of the FIAT G.91 fleet were being flown (phase-out concluded in 1993). The no.1809 had returned from the Azores during 1984, it had been there from 1982, at Esquadra 303 "Tigres" [act.1981 - deact. 1989]. It was one of the few biplace aircraft, used in flight instruction of the Esquadra 301 "Jaguares" new pilots, and maybe the 303 badge was kept there as a memento of the former unit. Maybe.

I asked Paulo Moreno (the author of the photos), who not only confirmed the tail numbers, as well as confirmed the detail photo as being of 1809.
However, I for myself, as Paulo Alegria, consulted the bibliography I have at home, and realized that the majority of the Portuguese written books have this 1809 related to c/n 91-2-0033. In fact, the only Portuguese book I have with the relation 1809/91-2-0034 is the book on the 20th anniversary of the FIAT fleet in the FAP, written my the "Masters" Gen.PILAV Mimoso e Carvalho and the Eng. Luis Tavares; as do the several editions I have of the European Air Forces Directory, by Ian Carrol (Pub. Mach III).
This left me curious.

A few e-mails latter... I got aditional answers.

A very helpful Stefan Goossens, of Dutch Aviation Society/Scramble, explained me that the trouble with 1809 comes since the publication of a work by a Paul A Jackson, on West German aircraft, back in 1976. Apparently this was the first reference to the FIAT 1809 as being c/n 91-2-0033.
The thing is that c/n 91-2-0033 was lost in an accident in Pferdsfeld, on 21 June 1966. Therefore, Stefan Goosens reinforced the idea that WGAF 34+30 was allways c/n 91-2-0034.

On the other hand, the F-40 book series on German military aircraft, by Siegfried Wache, its no.42, on the FIAT G.91 T.3, lists all the produced aircraft and their final destiny. I must confess that I was not hopping to find any other thing that the full clarification of my own doubts, I was not hoping for, yet, another surprise.
There one can find the confirmation of the fate of c/n 91-2-0033, w/o in accident in 1966.
However the c/n 91-20034 apears with no relation whatsoever to the aircraft received by FAP, and is reported as scrapped/destroyed(?).
On the 1809 there is no reference in the list.
How about that?

Somewhat latter came the confirmation of the data by Eng. Luís Tavares himself, that 1809 is c/n 91-2-0034 and exWGAF 34+30, data confirmation that dates back to the time he was searching information for the "20 years of the FIAT in FAP" book, made in co-authory with Gen. Mimoso e Carvalho.
Referred also Eng. Luís Tavares, out of curiosity, that « the T/3 of the Luftwaffe, 44 were built at FIAT, in Turim, Italy, c/n 0001 to 0044 s/n BD+101 to BD+132. Aditionaly Dornier built another 22 aircraft, from 1971 to 1973 c/n 601 to 622 Luftwaffe 34+01 to 34+40...».

If aditional clarification comes from Mr. Siegfried Wache this post will be updated ...

In the meanwhile, aditional contacts [ex. Otger van der Kooij] confirmed the relation1809/91-2-0034.

So, in conclusion (I hope),

FIAT G.91 T.3
C/N – 91-2-0034 (FIAT)
West German AF nºs – BD+133, after 34+30 of WS 50 (Waffenschule der Luftwaffe 50), after LVR 6 (Luftwaffenversorgungsregiment 6);
FAP – 1809 Esq62 (1974 – 1982), Esq303 (1982-1984) Esq301 (1984-1993)
WFU - in 1993 – noted in Montijo until 1996.
Remains noted in Arranhó (scrapyard) (1999-2000).

Aditionaly, with the help of some friends, we were able to confirm the following FIAT G.91 T.3,

1804 c/n (exGondomar)
Although not possible to confirm, due to the lack of the ID plate on the fuselage, all sources seem to point out that this is c/n 91-2-0017.

1806 c/n (Museu do Ar)
Currently stored at Ota, there was not possible to phisicaly confer the ID plate because it has been removed from the aircraft.
In any case, it is c/n 91-2-0025 exWest German AF 34+23.

34+27 c/n 91-2-0030 (Sto André das Tojeiras)
In June 2011, Pedro Torres was kind enough to go there again, and confirm the absence of the ID plate on the fuselage, however was quite visible by then, on the tail, the c/n as being 0030.

There is yet another “T.3” to be confirmed, but I need somebody to go to France and confirm it ...

If new data will apear, this post will be updated.

Thanks for the querry to Paulo Alegria and, for the help in clarifying all this to,
Andy Marden
Ian Carroll
Eng. Luís Tavares
SMOR Manuel Pacheco (Museu do Ar)
Paulo Moreno
Pedro Torres
TCor Miguel Santos
SMOR Manuel Pacheco (Museu do Ar)
Siegfried Wache (F-40)
Stefan Goossens (DAS/Scramble)
Otger Van der Kooij (EMOOS)

Portuguese Version in Pássaro de Ferro

quarta-feira, 6 de julho de 2011

Aerotranstornados No.16 - Spotting Notes

Spotting Notes

Spotters Day BA6 - Montijo - 22 June 2011

1st spotting session

16513 C-212 Esq401
1339 DHC1 AFA
19609 EH101 Esq751

2nd spotting session

19608 EH101 Esq751
16802 C-130H30 Esq501 arr. from BA11
F-16M's fly by including 15106 special Jaguar c/s for NTM2011
19609 EH101 Esq751
16707 C-295M Esq502
CS-DEN TB-20 Trinidad GT CAE Global Academy

Esquadra 401 "Cientistas" flightline ...

16505 C-212
16513 C-212
17201 C-212-300MP in hangar
17202 C-212-300MP
... plus 3 or 4 C-212's in hangar

Other aircraft noted on the base,

5463 FIAT G.91R/3 - Gate Guard
5447 FIAT G.91R/3 - CFSFA
5453 FIAT G.91R/3 - tail section
5404 FIAT G.91R/4 - by Esq.401 building
14802 Lockheed P-3P Orion - exEsq601 wfu

Carreira de Tiro de Alcochete - 22nd June 2011

15537 LTV A-7P Corsair II exEsq304

Força Aérea Portuguesa's - Open Bases Day - 3th July 2011

BA1 Sintra

2424 Cessna T-37C (displayed by the road leading to the base)

Museu do Ar – indoors displayed aircraft (main hangar)

2504 Beech AT-11
CS-AZI Beechcraft F.33 Bonanza
9T-MSS Boeing 707 (front fuselage + engine)
102 DH82 Tiger Moth
CR-AAC DH87B Hornet Moth
2307 DH89A Dragon Rapide
15550 LTV TA-7P
5445 Fiat G.91R/3 75.000HV c/s
1202 Fournier RF-10
6304 Junkers Ju52 3mg3/e
CS-TLA LoCkheed Super Constelation (front fuselage / simulator)
'6403' Nord Noratlas
Santos Dummond 14bis replica
Santos Dummond XX Demoiselle (replica)
PE-1 Schulgleiter Grunnau 38
‘9201’ Sikorsky H-19
‘ML255/MR-Z’ Supermarine 361 Spitfire HF.IXC
Caravelle (simulator)
‘5320’ NA F-86F Sabre (fuselage of 5338)
A-7P simulator
T-33 simulator

Museu do Ar – indoors displayed aircraft (older hangars - recently restored)
1305 DHC1 Chipmunk Mk.20
1923 Lockheed T-33A
1517 NA Harvard II A
9217 SE.3130 Alouette II
3304 MH1521M Broussard
2605 Northrop T-38A
2430 Cessna T-37C
CS-AXB Jurca Tempête
'5407' Fiat G.91R/4
13715 Reims FTB-337G
Caudron G.3 (replica)

Museu do Ar – outdoors displayed aircraft
1916 Lockheed RT-33A
19512 SA-330 Puma
16508 C-212 Esq401 tail mks
16524 C-212 MAD boom
6157 Douglas C-47A (wingless) - noted on taxiways near to Esq.101 flightline
4711 Lockheed P-2V-5 Neptune
14806 Lockheed P-3P
1926 Lockheed T-33A
5361 NA F-86F Sabre

Static Display

14809 Lockheed P-3C CUP+ Esq601
17401 Falcon 50 Esq504
16806 Lockheed C-130H-30 Esq501
16505 CASA C-212 Esq401
16707 EADS C-295M Esq502
11402 SOCATA TB-30 Epsilon Esq101
15209 Dornier Alphajet A Asas de Portugal c/s (Museum Collection)
'15100' LM F-16A
1319 DHC1
19376 SE.3160 Alouette III Esq552 Rotores de Portugal c/s
19611 EH-101 Esq751

Aircraft noted in front of Esquadra 101 maintenance hangar.
TB-30 - 11401, 11403, 11407, 11409, 11411

BA5 Monte Real

Gate Guards and resident displayed a/c
5454 Fiat G.91R/3 Tiger c/s (Museu do Ar Collection)
15521 LTV A-7P "64.000 Hours" c/s
15524 LTV A-7P (Gate Guard)
1918 Lockheed T-33A
'15150'LM F16A (Gate Guard)
5301 NA F-86F (Gate Guard - old gate)
5347 NA F-86F
2609 Northrop T-38A

Static Display
15104 LM F-16AM
15113 LM F-16AM
15126 LM F-16AM

Flying a/c
15101 LM F-16AM
15107 LM F-16AM
15108 LM F-16AM
15114 LM F-16AM
15117 LM F-16AM
15121 LM F-16AM - BA5 mks
15130 LM F-16AM
15137 LM F-16BM

MLU Hangar (Doca 4)
15112 LM F-16AM
15116 LM F-16AM

Maintenance hangar
15133 LM F-16AM - Jaguar mks
15134 LM F-16AM
15139 LM F-16BM

AM1 Ovar (Noted on the 2nd July)

15504 LTV A-7P Corsair II - Gate Guard

Museu do Ar Collection
15246 Alphajet A
3548 Auster D.5
16503 CASA C-212
2427 Cessna T-37C
5452 Fiat G.91R/3
15545 LTV TA-7P
2608 Northrop T-38A
3208 Piper Cub
13710 Reims FTB-337G

SAR Alert
19302 SE.3160 Alouette III Esq552 Rotores de Portugal c/s - made a winch recovery display on the 3rdJuly.

sexta-feira, 1 de julho de 2011

BA3 Tancos em livro

O Aerotranstornados, em associação com o Walkarounds, vem divulgar um projecto de mais um livro.

Desta feita o tema é a História da Base Aérea 3 - Tancos. Este aeródromo, activado em 1919, só em 1938 recebe a designação de Base Aérea e viria, entre 1952 e 1993 a estar atribuído à Força Aérea Portuguesa...
Esta iniciativa, da responsabilidade do Sr. Aires Marques, dirige-se num apelo aberto a todos os interessados em prestar o seu contributo (transcrição de mensagem recebida),

Caríssimos amigos,
Depois do Livro dos "50 Anos da BA5", estou a preparar o livro da nossa saudosa BA3.
Já tenho autorização da FAP e muita documentação obtida na Revista Mais Alto e no
Arquivo Histórico.
Todavia, creio, poderá haver sempre um documento ou uma fotografia ou até um patch que possa "vir a calhar como mel na sopa".
Ou até o contacto de alguém com quem possa falar para me relatar situações ou fornecer informações.
Por isto, quem achar que possa vir a dar o seu contributo pode contactar-me através do mail ou do TM:
917 628 115.

Um obrigado, desde já e
Um abraço
Aires Marques