Contributions for the History of FIAT G.91 T.3 FAP nr.1809
Some time ago, in August 2010, was published in the blog Pássaro de Ferro (Iron Bird), by António "A-7" Luís, another set of images by Paulo Moreno, depicting the passage through Monte Real Air Base, in 1991, of a flight of FIAT G.91's,
[http://www.passarodeferro.com/2010/08/1991-fiats-g-91-em-monte-real.html]
From the images, one can find the FIAT nos. 1801, 5442, 5459, 1809 plus other two.
Nothing made me suppose that a reader of the site/blog Walkarounds [http://walkarounds.home.sapo.pt/] mailed us and called my attention to an interesting detail.
One of the photos, shows the side fuselage of one of the aircraft, with the Esquadra 303 "Tigres" logo, and on the side of it, a stenciling containing, among others the Constructor Number 91-2-0034.
[https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEilf5_5LtWTQ922bGo5ekVR-V-L3ZVgBUQ0hi8YZy2UBZHLP9g4DUtW_R3JEmB-W801K1mTCfhTCc4vaJ-StLvjoykDl85ztl7FGmaehAcUzOB4SNePYq0nq_0vEOantq_85G5IDsM7jOM/s1600/Photo15_11A.jpg]
The querry, presented by this enthusiast, Paulo Alegria, is quite common, not only for those of us interested in the "spider web-like" complicated stories around aircraft "numerology", but also for those, as was the case, that are just trying to identify a photo in order to organize their collection. Furthermore, what was doing a Esquadra 303 aircraft in Mainland Portugal -- the Esquadra 303 was based at Lajes Air Base, in the Azores?
Well, the last question is simpler to answer. This was 1991, the last days of the FIAT G.91 fleet were being flown (phase-out concluded in 1993). The no.1809 had returned from the Azores during 1984, it had been there from 1982, at Esquadra 303 "Tigres" [act.1981 - deact. 1989]. It was one of the few biplace aircraft, used in flight instruction of the Esquadra 301 "Jaguares" new pilots, and maybe the 303 badge was kept there as a memento of the former unit. Maybe.
I asked Paulo Moreno (the author of the photos), who not only confirmed the tail numbers, as well as confirmed the detail photo as being of 1809.
However, I for myself, as Paulo Alegria, consulted the bibliography I have at home, and realized that the majority of the Portuguese written books have this 1809 related to c/n 91-2-0033. In fact, the only Portuguese book I have with the relation 1809/91-2-0034 is the book on the 20th anniversary of the FIAT fleet in the FAP, written my the "Masters" Gen.PILAV Mimoso e Carvalho and the Eng. Luis Tavares; as do the several editions I have of the European Air Forces Directory, by Ian Carrol (Pub. Mach III).
This left me curious.
A few e-mails latter... I got aditional answers.
A very helpful Stefan Goossens, of Dutch Aviation Society/Scramble, explained me that the trouble with 1809 comes since the publication of a work by a Paul A Jackson, on West German aircraft, back in 1976. Apparently this was the first reference to the FIAT 1809 as being c/n 91-2-0033.
The thing is that c/n 91-2-0033 was lost in an accident in Pferdsfeld, on 21 June 1966. Therefore, Stefan Goosens reinforced the idea that WGAF 34+30 was allways c/n 91-2-0034.
On the other hand, the F-40 book series on German military aircraft, by Siegfried Wache, its no.42, on the FIAT G.91 T.3, lists all the produced aircraft and their final destiny. I must confess that I was not hopping to find any other thing that the full clarification of my own doubts, I was not hoping for, yet, another surprise.
There one can find the confirmation of the fate of c/n 91-2-0033, w/o in accident in 1966.
However the c/n 91-20034 apears with no relation whatsoever to the aircraft received by FAP, and is reported as scrapped/destroyed(?).
On the 1809 there is no reference in the list.
How about that?
Somewhat latter came the confirmation of the data by Eng. Luís Tavares himself, that 1809 is c/n 91-2-0034 and exWGAF 34+30, data confirmation that dates back to the time he was searching information for the "20 years of the FIAT in FAP" book, made in co-authory with Gen. Mimoso e Carvalho.
Referred also Eng. Luís Tavares, out of curiosity, that « the T/3 of the Luftwaffe, 44 were built at FIAT, in Turim, Italy, c/n 0001 to 0044 s/n BD+101 to BD+132. Aditionaly Dornier built another 22 aircraft, from 1971 to 1973 c/n 601 to 622 Luftwaffe 34+01 to 34+40...».
If aditional clarification comes from Mr. Siegfried Wache this post will be updated ...
In the meanwhile, aditional contacts [ex. Otger van der Kooij] confirmed the relation1809/91-2-0034.
So, in conclusion (I hope),
FIAT G.91 T.3
C/N – 91-2-0034 (FIAT)
West German AF nºs – BD+133, after 34+30 of WS 50 (Waffenschule der Luftwaffe 50), after LVR 6 (Luftwaffenversorgungsregiment 6);
FAP – 1809 Esq62 (1974 – 1982), Esq303 (1982-1984) Esq301 (1984-1993)
WFU - in 1993 – noted in Montijo until 1996.
Remains noted in Arranhó (scrapyard) (1999-2000).
Aditionaly, with the help of some friends, we were able to confirm the following FIAT G.91 T.3,
1804 c/n (exGondomar)
Although not possible to confirm, due to the lack of the ID plate on the fuselage, all sources seem to point out that this is c/n 91-2-0017.
[http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p175/RuiFerreira/Aviation%20-%20Portuguese%20Military/1804dgmfa.jpg]
1806 c/n (Museu do Ar)
Currently stored at Ota, there was not possible to phisicaly confer the ID plate because it has been removed from the aircraft.
In any case, it is c/n 91-2-0025 exWest German AF 34+23.
[http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p175/RuiFerreira/Aviation%20-%20Portuguese%20Military/180691-2-0025.jpg]
34+27 c/n 91-2-0030 (Sto André das Tojeiras)
[http://walkarounds-ccadf.blogspot.com/2011/03/perdidos-achados-1-fiat-g91-t3-exwgaf.html]
In June 2011, Pedro Torres was kind enough to go there again, and confirm the absence of the ID plate on the fuselage, however was quite visible by then, on the tail, the c/n as being 0030.
[http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p175/RuiFerreira/Aviation%20-%20Foreign%20Military/3428cn0030copy.jpg]
There is yet another “T.3” to be confirmed, but I need somebody to go to France and confirm it ...
[http://reception-aviation.chateau-savigny.com/index.htm]
If new data will apear, this post will be updated.
Thanks for the querry to Paulo Alegria and, for the help in clarifying all this to,
Andy Marden
Ian Carroll
Eng. Luís Tavares
SMOR Manuel Pacheco (Museu do Ar)
Paulo Moreno
Pedro Torres
TCor Miguel Santos
SMOR Manuel Pacheco (Museu do Ar)
Siegfried Wache (F-40)
Stefan Goossens (DAS/Scramble)
Otger Van der Kooij (EMOOS)
Portuguese Version in Pássaro de Ferro
http://www.passarodeferro.com/2011/07/contributos-para-historia-do-fiat-g91.html
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